I dont get the unfair criticism

[Yaz McBoo]

???

Actually, my concert buddy is much older and saw Soul Asylum back in the 1980s, long before I ever did and probably before most people on this board ever did. I'm not trying to knock the band or their ways. But if you want to understand the criticism, as was originally asked, put yourselves in the shoes of those criticizing.

How would any of us feel is Dan and Dave announced they are never going to play anything written pre-2010? Because that's essentially what happened around 1993-1994.

The band changed, as bands often do as Phil rightly noted, but SA took it further and disowned their back catalog, as my friend pointed out. For much of the 1990s, the band didn't play songs like Cartoon, Sometime to Return, Closer to the Stars, Easy Street, unbelievably great songs we take for granted now that those songs have reappeared. From that perspective, I can see older fans felt like they were disowned too, and felt like they no longer knew the band they loved. Is that hard to fathom?

As other people have pointed out, the stuff you like the most might be the songs they played when you first heard the band, or songs you heard when something important happened in your life, and if they're not doing that stuff or stuff like that anymore, it's just not going to be as important to you.

Just because I've shared other perspectives doesn't mean I'm saying that's the right perspective, or the point of view that everyone should have. Believe me, I'll see and have seen this band any chance I get, and if I went to a show where they played nothing but stuff from Dim Light and Candy, I would think it'd be an awesome show. (Even better would be if they did all the stuff that didn't make it onto those albums!!)

Rock on,

Rob

thats so kind of you yaz mcboo to take someone mentally challenged to concerts. not everyone can be soul asylum fans or stand to see dave mature as a singer/songwriter and i wouldnt want everyone to like soul asylum. but those of us who do love and appreciate there songs know nobody does it better. there better as the underdog band anyway.and dan picked THE GAME as one of his 3 favorite songs so unlike some would have you believe they do like CFAS and to me there last 6 cds are perfection so i know the new one will fit right along with the rest

[blueharvest]

I think Rob makes some really good points. I tend to agree with most of what he said. I started listening to SA in 94, but actually it was Hang Time that I heard. I picked up the back catalogue over the next few months and was Blown. Away. There was a sheer rawness and intensity that to me seemed years ahead of its time. The songwriting was absolutely aces. Great lyrics and particularly melodies. As an (aspiring) songwriter myself, it wasn't until years later that I realized what it was that really bothered me about the post-horse SA's songs. It basically comes down to song structure. GDU and most (not all) of what came after was predictable. Verse, chorus, verse chorus, bridge etc... There was a certain madness to the early stuff that got lost when Dave "matured" as a songwriter. Take for example Sometime to Return: Remember back to the first time you heard it. If your experience was anything like mine, you were probably amazed by the opening riff followed by an awesome, flowing verse of twists and turns leading to the chorus (with another awesome riff). Bang back into another mind-blowing verse of weird imagery and into the next chorus BUT!!!! That wasn't the chorus at all!! The Chorus only comes in after the second verse and pre-chorus. And the actual chorus actually manages to take the melody to the next f**king level. Throw in an incredible solo, follow it up with a slowed down verse and jump into right into the chorus a couple steps higher than before and merge that into an kablam-o outro. Wow! I'm winded just writing about it.
Pre-GDU SA songs have very little cheese, even less shmaltz and importantly: original structures. Other great Pre-GDU songs that have unorthodox structural elements: Masquerade, Long Way Home, Nowhere to Go, Sun Don't Shine, Closer to the Stars, Heavy Rotation, Artificial Heart, Nice Guys Don't Get Paid.
It's kind of sad to see gifted songwriters turn away from serving the song to serving the audience (by audience, I mean mass audience i.e. radio and mainstream TV (MTV etc...) viewers and listeners, not live audience members). It comes down to the old conflict between art and commercialism. I definitely see the same thing in Dave Grohl. The first 2 Foo Fighter albums (and Pocketwatch) had brilliant, unorthodox songs and structures. Recently it seems all he writes is somewhat heavy commercial meh.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[Homesick]

It's not really true that they ever "disowned" their back catalog, though. If you look at the setlists from their shows in -93 and -94, you'll see many of the songs that you mention. Granted, there were more new songs than old songs, but that only seems reasonable when the band has just released a new album and is working on another one.

In fact, even their MTV Unplugged performance—which took place during the height of their success—included Stranger, Closer To the Stars, Never Really Been, We 3, and Grounded. Add to this the fact that two of the songs performed were covers and you've got a setlist where the new songs barely outweigh the old songs. If there ever were an opportunity to "sell out", a live show on MTV would be it, and yet they still chose songs from their entire discography.

[Yaz McBoo]

yeah that was the last time they played those few holdovers. I don't think any of my tapes from 95-98 have them at all. Around 99 a few started creeping back in, and around 2001 ish a few more. By then all the old fans had drifted off.

There is, or at least I seem to recall, an interview maybe even the famous RS article, where they clearly said they had no interest in playing the old stuff anymore.

-Rob

[philipgar]

It's not really true that they ever "disowned" their back catalog, though. If you look at the setlists from their shows in -93 and -94, you'll see many of the songs that you mention. Granted, there were more new songs than old songs, but that only seems reasonable when the band has just released a new album and is working on another one.

In fact, even their MTV Unplugged performance—which took place during the height of their success—included Stranger, Closer To the Stars, Never Really Been, We 3, and Grounded. Add to this the fact that two of the songs performed were covers and you've got a setlist where the new songs barely outweigh the old songs. If there ever were an opportunity to "sell out", a live show on MTV would be it, and yet they still chose songs from their entire discography.

back in '93 they did play some of their old songs, but at the time, they had to if they wanted to play a set of any reasonable length. A show of just GDU and maybe one or two cover songs would last at most an hour. That just wouldn't cut it for some of their shows, so they had a few old songs in there. In '95 though, they basically dropped all of their older songs from their setlist. There were rare shows where an old song made it, but it was relatively rare. I think a lot of this had to do with Sterling, as I don't think he really cared to learn the back catalog of songs. For the next 5 years or so, the band stuck to that formula, basically ignoring anything from before GDU.

If anything, that WOULD alienate fans of the old material, and make them think they had sold out, as it looked like they disowned that material. Personally, I still enjoyed the shows I saw in the '98/'99 era, but they would have been better with one or two older songs thrown in. I think it was around '99 when they first started experimenting with some of the old songs once more. I think this had enough to do with Ian, who was really excited about the band, and was getting into their back catalog, etc. I remember that the '98/'99 era was a time when you felt like it was a really special show to hear Cartoon live. Looking back on it, it's hard to believe, as now Cartoon is a staple at EVERY show. It was the 2000 era where things really started turning up for the old material.

Now, we would be shocked to see an SA show without at least 3 or 4 pre-GDU songs. Closer To The Stars, and Cartoon are almost always there, then they mix in Never Really Been, Sometime To Return, occasionally Stranger (I have yet to see that one though) etc. It's a very different era, but I think the band realized that some of those old songs are what the fans reacted to the most, so it's what they played. I don't really know the bands reasoning for what they did, but it does give many of the nay sayers some credit when they say the band sold out. Personally, I love all the material, but I love the new balance that's been found for the live shows.

Phil

[EL DANGEROSO]

your friend yaz has the right to feel the way he does maybe im being defensive since i think they arent selling out. and if you were there at the beginning of the band or since TSL and went back and bought all there back catalouge all that matters if your still there for them today.im going to let it go. im just glad i never became jaded towards the band. its there loss.