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 I think we all need to stop and think for a moment. 
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:34 pm
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I am sure you all have watched the news and read about the flooding, tornadoes, and even volcanic eruptions. Lets not forget about Japan either.
We all need to remember the folks that have been hit by the disasters mentioned. Do whatever it is you do, whether you pray to God or whatever your belief is, ban together and keep the people in your thoughts, hearts, and prayers and do what ever you can to help them. This could very well be us. I just heard Minneapolis just got hit with a tornado. I've been a storm spotter in Florida for a year now, and I can tell you that something isn't right with our atmosphere.


Heather


Sun May 22, 2011 8:01 pm
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Nice post, Heather...I think you're right. I'm not a storm spotter but certainly am a storm watcher, especially June to November - our worse season. Hurricane season is right around the corner, the Mississippi is filling up and the rest of the world's weather has gone haywire. We're all sitting on pins and needles lately.


Mon May 23, 2011 12:50 am
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I think it's possible that there are times that nature disasters hit more often than at other times, but I think that it has always been that way... it's just that when nowadays something happens somewhere it is world news within a couple of minutes, and it obviously wasn't that way hundreds of years ago, so we're a lot more aware.


Mon May 23, 2011 3:23 am
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Closer wrote:
I think it's possible that there are times that nature disasters hit more often than at other times, but I think that it has always been that way... it's just that when nowadays something happens somewhere it is world news within a couple of minutes, and it obviously wasn't that way hundreds of years ago, so we're a lot more aware.


I wouldn't agree. I don't think disasters like these we are witnessing happened at the same rate as hundreds of years ago.
I remember a discussion a friend of mine from high school had with our biology teacher. Remember that tsunami that hit Thailand in 2004? His theory was that that tsunami and all similar disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes were a way the nature, the Earth is dealing with its overpopulated planet. The Earth is revolting against what we're doing to it.
Well, I'm not the expert here, but it is ludicrous to think that there's no truth to his words.
I mean, industrial facilities, cars, smog, carbon dioxide and whatnot caused the greenhouse effect, the atmosphere temperature is rising, the seasons have changed - the fine line between spring, summer and fall is slowly and gradually being erased, the bees are dying! Things like this didn't happen hundreds of years ago. I once watched a documentary on bees and what would happen if they became extinct. Well, nothing good, actually the whole eco and biosystem would be completely imbalanced. And that is exacty what is happening right now. We sure as hell need to stop and think for a moment. Excuse my french.


Mon May 23, 2011 11:21 am
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spodiba wrote:
His theory was that that tsunami and all similar disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes were a way the nature, the Earth is dealing with its overpopulated planet. The Earth is revolting against what we're doing to it. Well, I'm not the expert here, but it is ludicrous to think that there's no truth to his words.


I'm sorry, but that theory is just laughable. :lol: The earth is an inanimate object. How could it possibly know how many people are here or what we're doing to it? I've never met a rock that had instincts of self-preservation before.

I'm not saying that humans aren't doing terrible things to the planet because obviously we are, but come on, the planet is revolting against us? Yeah, I think later today my shoes might take it upon themselves to trip me because I've worn them for so long.

If it's ludicrous to think you're wrong, then gimmie a straight jacket and call me crazy!

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Mon May 23, 2011 2:17 pm
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spodiba wrote:
Closer wrote:
I wouldn't agree. I don't think disasters like these we are witnessing happened at the same rate as hundreds of years ago.
I remember a discussion a friend of mine from high school had with our biology teacher. Remember that tsunami that hit Thailand in 2004? His theory was that that tsunami and all similar disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes were a way the nature, the Earth is dealing with its overpopulated planet. The Earth is revolting against what we're doing to it.
Well, I'm not the expert here, but it is ludicrous to think that there's no truth to his words.
I mean, industrial facilities, cars, smog, carbon dioxide and whatnot caused the greenhouse effect, the atmosphere temperature is rising, the seasons have changed - the fine line between spring, summer and fall is slowly and gradually being erased, the bees are dying! Things like this didn't happen hundreds of years ago. I once watched a documentary on bees and what would happen if they became extinct. Well, nothing good, actually the whole eco and biosystem would be completely imbalanced. And that is exacty what is happening right now. We sure as hell need to stop and think for a moment. Excuse my french.


I wouldn't know if nature disasters occur at the same rate as hundreds of years ago because I don't know enough about it, but it's a fact that nowadays we're a lot more aware of it compared to back when news didn't travel as fast as now. You don't know how it was 500 years ago, so it's easy to state the theory that you mention, but I personally doubt it if there's no scientific proof. I agree that mankind should look after this planet, but it's also arrogant to think that we're actually significant enough to be responsible for hurricanes, earthquakes and what not.


Mon May 23, 2011 3:04 pm
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AlyssaJones wrote:
spodiba wrote:
His theory was that that tsunami and all similar disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes were a way the nature, the Earth is dealing with its overpopulated planet. The Earth is revolting against what we're doing to it. Well, I'm not the expert here, but it is ludicrous to think that there's no truth to his words.


I'm sorry, but that theory is just laughable. :lol: The earth is an inanimate object. How could it possibly know how many people are here or what we're doing to it? I've never met a rock that had instincts of self-preservation before.

I'm not saying that humans aren't doing terrible things to the planet because obviously we are, but come on, the planet is revolting against us? Yeah, I think later today my shoes might take it upon themselves to trip me because I've worn them for so long.

If it's ludicrous to think you're wrong, then gimmie a straight jacket and call me crazy!


The notion that mankind is at fault is actually something people have said in some way shape or form for thousands of years. It used to be that the church kept people ignorant, and clergy etc would claim that a natural disaster was God's way of punishing people for their wicked ways. I'm sure this has happened with most every religion as it seems so easy to say that God was angry and vengeful. It's a rather natural reaction.

In today's scientific dominated world, it's a lot harder to say God was vengeful. Instead people will try to use pseudo-scientific arguments to tell people that what they're doing is wrong, and try to instill their will over groups all the while gaining more power for themselves. I won't say there won't be highly negative effects because of global warming, but if you listen to some of these people, basically EVERYTHING bad that happens is somehow attributable to global warming, or other things mankind has done to the earth. I'm sure someone somewhere has made a pseudoscientific claim that global warming is either responsible for more frequent, or more devastating earth quakes, or both. They likely even used computer simulations etc to back up their points.

The problem is that science in many of these fields is just not advanced enough to make these predictions, and with something like weather there are entirely too many unknowns. The models are based on what they already know, but if you go out to show something, you can set parameters in your simulations that will make your desired outcome more likely. You also give more scrutiny to models that don't back up your desired outcome, and find flaws in them that you don't necessarily find with the other simulations. It's all a part of how science works (I'm way too involved in the process), and I'm sure it happens in all the fields to some degree or another. Considering a weather forecaster can't really predict the weather for a few days from now that accurately (using extremely high-end supercomputers), what makes me think their predictions on things years out are accurate? I know showing general trends is much easier than showing exact events, but we really just don't know enough.

What we end up having is people who have something to gain (grant money, fame, power, etc) from a set of desired results pushing their science to show it. Right now this one field has a lot of money/fame/power as their decisions can impact the economy of the entire world. It obviously is going to attract power hungry people, just like anything else. Scientists whose results aren't conclusive are generally sidelined, so oftentimes it's better to make a claim now, even if you're proven wrong later than to state that we really don't know something for sure.

And while many of the larger claims of global warming obviously have some truth, the question is how accurate are the claims of the damage, and how extensive is it? Right now I hear some of the most extreme claims and can't help but think of preachers telling people that God hates them for their sinful ways, and sent pestilence down upon them.

Sorry, I got derailed on this one. I don't have a clue if these disasters are more common or not, but again we don't really know the records for more than the past 100 years or so. Some things also end up cyclical etc. But we also must remember that countless massive natural disasters occur every year, but if they don't impact somewhere heavily populated, it just isn't a huge deal. A massive earthquake in someplace like siberia just doesn't impact enough people's lives for it to be reported on heavily. All this said, I wish the best for all of the victims, and hope for speedy recoveries.

Phil


Mon May 23, 2011 3:55 pm
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This is by no means indicative of global conditions, but here's a summary of the hurricane strikes that the U.S. mainland has suffered since the 1850s: U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade. Apparently, the worst period was between 1930 and 1960. That being said, mankind is obviously overburdening the environment in so many ways, and reducing emissions and energy consumption is necessary regardless of whether human activity is causing hurricanes or not.

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Mon May 23, 2011 3:59 pm
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I will tell you this, The earth's core is heating up. That increases magma and of course this means quakes, volcanoes. With the earth's core heating up, the oceans are 10 degrees hotter. Now, you may ask what 10 degrees means? Ice Caps are slowly thawing, with the temps on the rise, your storms are more severe and more rapid. Add the results of the greenhouse effect and you've increased your temps of the atmosphere to 15-20 degrees. It's a recipe for disaster. THIS has NOT happened before. Sure, we have active seasons once in awhile and a few decades ago, but to have every known disaster to man become active at the same time is not something that happens every 100 years. Sadly, it WILL get worse.
I study oceanic and atmospheric science, and I read the Bible. Now, what does this have to do with anything? Simple, Science recommends that this will only get worse and according to your belief's, many Christians believe it will get worse. To avoid and religious melt down, we won't go down that road but science is already confirming that it is going to be HELL.
I live in Florida and we have NEVER had the tornadoes that we've had here the past two years. 52 touchdowns in two years for Florida? That only happens during hurricanes and we haven't had any ( Thank God for That) since 05.

Heather


Mon May 23, 2011 4:40 pm
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philipgar wrote:
AlyssaJones wrote:
spodiba wrote:
His theory was that that tsunami and all similar disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes were a way the nature, the Earth is dealing with its overpopulated planet. The Earth is revolting against what we're doing to it. Well, I'm not the expert here, but it is ludicrous to think that there's no truth to his words.


I'm sorry, but that theory is just laughable. :lol: The earth is an inanimate object. How could it possibly know how many people are here or what we're doing to it? I've never met a rock that had instincts of self-preservation before.

I'm not saying that humans aren't doing terrible things to the planet because obviously we are, but come on, the planet is revolting against us? Yeah, I think later today my shoes might take it upon themselves to trip me because I've worn them for so long.

If it's ludicrous to think you're wrong, then gimmie a straight jacket and call me crazy!


The notion that mankind is at fault is actually something people have said in some way shape or form for thousands of years. It used to be that the church kept people ignorant, and clergy etc would claim that a natural disaster was God's way of punishing people for their wicked ways. I'm sure this has happened with most every religion as it seems so easy to say that God was angry and vengeful. It's a rather natural reaction.

In today's scientific dominated world, it's a lot harder to say God was vengeful. Instead people will try to use pseudo-scientific arguments to tell people that what they're doing is wrong, and try to instill their will over groups all the while gaining more power for themselves. I won't say there won't be highly negative effects because of global warming, but if you listen to some of these people, basically EVERYTHING bad that happens is somehow attributable to global warming, or other things mankind has done to the earth. I'm sure someone somewhere has made a pseudoscientific claim that global warming is either responsible for more frequent, or more devastating earth quakes, or both. They likely even used computer simulations etc to back up their points.

The problem is that science in many of these fields is just not advanced enough to make these predictions, and with something like weather there are entirely too many unknowns. The models are based on what they already know, but if you go out to show something, you can set parameters in your simulations that will make your desired outcome more likely. You also give more scrutiny to models that don't back up your desired outcome, and find flaws in them that you don't necessarily find with the other simulations. It's all a part of how science works (I'm way too involved in the process), and I'm sure it happens in all the fields to some degree or another. Considering a weather forecaster can't really predict the weather for a few days from now that accurately (using extremely high-end supercomputers), what makes me think their predictions on things years out are accurate? I know showing general trends is much easier than showing exact events, but we really just don't know enough.

What we end up having is people who have something to gain (grant money, fame, power, etc) from a set of desired results pushing their science to show it. Right now this one field has a lot of money/fame/power as their decisions can impact the economy of the entire world. It obviously is going to attract power hungry people, just like anything else. Scientists whose results aren't conclusive are generally sidelined, so oftentimes it's better to make a claim now, even if you're proven wrong later than to state that we really don't know something for sure.

And while many of the larger claims of global warming obviously have some truth, the question is how accurate are the claims of the damage, and how extensive is it? Right now I hear some of the most extreme claims and can't help but think of preachers telling people that God hates them for their sinful ways, and sent pestilence down upon them.

Sorry, I got derailed on this one. I don't have a clue if these disasters are more common or not, but again we don't really know the records for more than the past 100 years or so. Some things also end up cyclical etc. But we also must remember that countless massive natural disasters occur every year, but if they don't impact somewhere heavily populated, it just isn't a huge deal. A massive earthquake in someplace like siberia just doesn't impact enough people's lives for it to be reported on heavily. All this said, I wish the best for all of the victims, and hope for speedy recoveries.

Phil



The Planet may not have a mind of its own, but our activity has been known to increase the temps of the earth's core and atmosphere. To break that down, read the previous post.


Mon May 23, 2011 4:41 pm
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