All of Sweden is now under surveillance

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CrazyLittleWoman
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Re: All of Sweden is now under surveillance

Post by CrazyLittleWoman »

The "nothing to hide" argument is a ridiculous rationale for invading our privacy not only because of the reasons Sheryl stated (out-of-context remarks can be twisted to mean anything and can land someone in big trouble). Just because I have nothing to hide doesn't mean I want to share everything with the whole world. I may prefer to keep some information private even if it is in no way illegal, immoral, or damaging in any way. I should have the right to do so.

Homesick: What rationale is Sweden using to justify this new law? Here in the U.S., of course, it is the "war on terror" and the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001 that are used to justify invading our privacy.
"Dave Pirner was the coolest motherfucker to wield a low-strung telecaster who isn't called Keith Richards." -- Ginger (Wildhearts)

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Homesick
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Re: All of Sweden is now under surveillance

Post by Homesick »

CrazyLittleWoman, you just asked the million-dollar question.

Sweden has not been subjected to any act of terror. To my knowledge, two Swedish soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan. Far more Swedes, of course, have died from organized crime inside Sweden, completely unrelated to international terrorism.

Even then, terrorism is used as the excuse to turn Sweden into the same kind of police state that the US is becoming. It has not been demanded by the people; it has not been prompted by any attacks; and Swedish intelligence agencies, of course, will not share any details on alleged threats that they wish to protect us against.

Did I mention that this is a liberal government, said to hold the individual's right to freedom higher than anything?
Jakob Kallin, webmaster of EnterTheSoulAsylum.com

CrazyLittleWoman
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Re: All of Sweden is now under surveillance

Post by CrazyLittleWoman »

I'm so sorry to hear that this is happening, especially with such flimsy justifications. It's truly frightening.

By passing the Patriot Act and legalizing torture, the United States seems to be given all countries permission to make similar grabs at power.

I keep hoping that next year, after the election in November, a new Congress and President will dismantle the unconstitutional provisions of the Patriot Act, re-criminalize torture and go back to pursuing the ideal of universal human rights and civil liberties. Even if the U.S. is sometimes hypocritical in the way we go about espousing and enforcing human rights standards, we should at least be holding out the ideal and making some imperfect effort to live up to it.

Sometimes I have hopes that this repressive trend can be reversed, but most of the time I just worry that even new elected officials won't make a difference. Power can be seductive. Even if they didn't seize or seek out these outrageous powers themselves, will elected officials have the moral courage to refuse them once in office? Will they be able to dispossess themselves of these powers? I wish I felt more confidence that they will do the right thing.

Enough. I apologize for the gloom.
"Dave Pirner was the coolest motherfucker to wield a low-strung telecaster who isn't called Keith Richards." -- Ginger (Wildhearts)

g8trcarol
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Re: All of Sweden is now under surveillance

Post by g8trcarol »

Gee, being a long time science fiction fan is now paying off in spades. We've (as in "we the people") have long been afraid of government as "big brother" and have conjured up all kinds of scenerios as to what happens when government is allowed to collect, scan, and diddle around with private information with no more cause other than "it was there" or "we thought there might be". Many lives were ruined in the 1950's when McCarthy went on a witch hunt for communists. But, we are dealing with all kinds of surveillance RIGHT NOW that you may not be aware of. Ever try to find your house on Google Earth? I think the weather satellite on MSN does the same thing. I watched several of my students not only find their own homes...but they zoomed in on the parking lot of my school and proceeded to debate about whose red car had just left the parking lot. If you want to be really worried, there are hundreds of stories currently published that will reinforce your fear. Or you can rent the video "Brazil", directed by Terry Gilliam, (watch it twice) and wonder.

Peace,
Carol

spodiba
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Re: All of Sweden is now under surveillance

Post by spodiba »

Homesick wrote:Today, Sweden's parliament passed a law that will allow the government to monitor and record all telephone calls and all internet traffic that crosses the country's borders. In most cases, even purely domestic communication crosses the border at some point, which means that every single person who communicates in this fashion with or within Sweden risks being put under surveillance—even if he or she is not suspected of a crime. As a consequence, this law violates basic human rights and threatens the very foundations of democracy in Sweden.

As you may already know, I'm a citizen of Sweden. I feel that this law is preposterous, insulting, and totalitarian, and everyone I have spoken to about it shares these sentiments. In fact, every single poll that has been conducted on the issue clearly shows that this is not something the people of Sweden want. Our parliament has shown a reckless disregard for democracy in passing this law, and the fight against it is far from over.

Even if you are not from Sweden yourself, this issue still concerns you: your own country could be next in imposing this kind of violation against its own citizens.
I just found this thread and was, of course, shocked by the fact that the Swedish Parliament actually passed the law, and I just had to share this with you.
This is exactly what is happening now in Croatia, our Parliamnet wants to pass the similar kind of law that would allow the gov. to monitor phone calls, and not only that - the police would be allowed to enter your home and bug it so that you'd be under constant surveillance. They would be allowed to monitor everything you download from the internet. And then all the media reported on this possible law, and then they sadi they were misquoted or something like that, and said, no, no, we're not trying to do that, and said that we misinterpreted the whole thing. After reading here about Sweden, I'm more convinced that such a law is not all that impossible.
I agree with you, this is against the very principle of human rights and democracy.

And there's another great bill they're trying to pass here in Croatia, the one on the institute of University. They want to cut funds for university projects and basically hand all of our univeristies to "private business people", but that's not the worst thing - this law would literaly allow almost anyone to become the dean of a university - any businessman, a mayor of a city could become the dean, the dean wouldn't even have to be a professor, and the hot potato in this story is the part of the bill that limits the university autonomy. And as you know, this autonomy is one of the guiding principles of democracy and freedom of thought at universities. Everyone, literaly everyone from the academia, from students to the Senate, everyone rose in revolt to this bill, there are student protests, demonstations; meetings, plenums are being held, letters are being written to the govenrment, the whole community is on pins and needles waiting to see what's gonna happen

shadiq
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Re: All of Sweden is now under surveillance

Post by shadiq »

We are to believe that all govt makes or amend rules for the betterment of human.

jessy27
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Re: All of Sweden is now under surveillance

Post by jessy27 »

It's not going to stop there. This is about control and other governments are
going to try the same thing. About the only thing you can do is vote the bums out. :)

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