I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

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philipgar
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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by philipgar »

Heather1983 wrote:I will tell you this, The earth's core is heating up. That increases magma and of course this means quakes, volcanoes. With the earth's core heating up, the oceans are 10 degrees hotter. Now, you may ask what 10 degrees means? Ice Caps are slowly thawing, with the temps on the rise, your storms are more severe and more rapid. Add the results of the greenhouse effect and you've increased your temps of the atmosphere to 15-20 degrees. It's a recipe for disaster. THIS has NOT happened before. Sure, we have active seasons once in awhile and a few decades ago, but to have every known disaster to man become active at the same time is not something that happens every 100 years. Sadly, it WILL get worse.
I study oceanic and atmospheric science, and I read the Bible. Now, what does this have to do with anything? Simple, Science recommends that this will only get worse and according to your belief's, many Christians believe it will get worse. To avoid and religious melt down, we won't go down that road but science is already confirming that it is going to be HELL.
I live in Florida and we have NEVER had the tornadoes that we've had here the past two years. 52 touchdowns in two years for Florida? That only happens during hurricanes and we haven't had any ( Thank God for That) since 05.

Heather

I'm confused when you say that the earth's core has increased 15-20 degrees? Do you mean the core of the earth in the center? I've never heard anything about it increasing, and have always been under the impression that it is cooling off slowly (as the heat in the core is residual heat from the earth's formation). I don't know how man kind could have any real impact on the earth's core temperature, the only thing I can think of is stuff like geothermal energy plants, and mining operations. Those would have an impact on the core's temperature, but in the other direction, as they tend to release heat trapped under the earth's crust.

I am not an expert in this field by any means, but heating of the crust would seem to defy much of what I know about physics and chemistry. A quick googling of this didn't really turn up anything, so I am curious to learn more.

Phil

Heather1983
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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by Heather1983 »

philipgar wrote:
Heather1983 wrote:I will tell you this, The earth's core is heating up. That increases magma and of course this means quakes, volcanoes. With the earth's core heating up, the oceans are 10 degrees hotter. Now, you may ask what 10 degrees means? Ice Caps are slowly thawing, with the temps on the rise, your storms are more severe and more rapid. Add the results of the greenhouse effect and you've increased your temps of the atmosphere to 15-20 degrees. It's a recipe for disaster. THIS has NOT happened before. Sure, we have active seasons once in awhile and a few decades ago, but to have every known disaster to man become active at the same time is not something that happens every 100 years. Sadly, it WILL get worse.
I study oceanic and atmospheric science, and I read the Bible. Now, what does this have to do with anything? Simple, Science recommends that this will only get worse and according to your belief's, many Christians believe it will get worse. To avoid and religious melt down, we won't go down that road but science is already confirming that it is going to be HELL.
I live in Florida and we have NEVER had the tornadoes that we've had here the past two years. 52 touchdowns in two years for Florida? That only happens during hurricanes and we haven't had any ( Thank God for That) since 05.

Heather

I'm confused when you say that the earth's core has increased 15-20 degrees? Do you mean the core of the earth in the center? I've never heard anything about it increasing, and have always been under the impression that it is cooling off slowly (as the heat in the core is residual heat from the earth's formation). I don't know how man kind could have any real impact on the earth's core temperature, the only thing I can think of is stuff like geothermal energy plants, and mining operations. Those would have an impact on the core's temperature, but in the other direction, as they tend to release heat trapped under the earth's crust.

I am not an expert in this field by any means, but heating of the crust would seem to defy much of what I know about physics and chemistry. A quick googling of this didn't really turn up anything, so I am curious to learn more.

Phil

That is the thing. Ten years ago, the Earth's core was slowly cooling. However, the 15-20 degrees is from our own pollution. That increases the atmosphere.
As for the heating of core, if you take piece of metal and you place it in the center of rock and then slowly begin to heat the rock with extreme temps, the metal piece will absorb more of that heat transfer than that rock. our core is like a piece of metal. The melting rock and other metals combine will take to the heat transfer much faster now that the atmosphere temp is on the rise.
Scientist are baffled at what might have sparked this increase of core temp. Global Warming of course is just the name for all of this because it is actually warming up everywhere. You are right about the Volcanic activities releasing the pressure, but have you noticed that these eruptions and earthquakes are much more severe and happen more often? The hotter the earth gets inside, the more of these we will have.

The outer core of the earth is cooling, there is no doubt, but scientists have recently discovered that the inner core may be melting. And if it is melting, then the temps are increasing. It was believed to be that the earth's core had been cooling from the inside out, but several scientists from a University in England have discovered that it may be the complete opposite. Of course there are more studies ahead to confirm and the computer models that will monitor the mantel layers as well as the core, will need to be designed for the job.
Our sun is also expanding and this will work like a microwave to the earth's core. Heating it from the inside out.
I would encourage everyone to pay as close attention to what the earth is doing. Hotter temps mean the polar ice caps will begin to thaw and this will increase the flooding.

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philipgar
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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by philipgar »

Just as an aside, I decided to do some quick back of the envelope calculations on this, and what I found is that increasing the temperature of the earth's core by 10 degrees F is just not something that's feasible (assuming I did my math right). It's been a few years since I've done any of these chemistry problems (so if any of our resident experts want to double check the work, please do), but I really didn't want to work on my thesis, and this seemed more interesting.

Here goes, first, I'm assuming the earth's core is 100% iron in composition (it's really 70% or so), and I'm using the heat capacity of iron for all my numbers. This is likely off, but iron has a fairly low heat capacity as it stands, so I'm likely to underestimate the heat capacity if anything.

From a quick googling, I found out that the earth's core is ~27.5% of the earth's mass, and the earth's mass is 5.974x10^24 Kg, or 5.974x10^27 grams.

10 degrees F is equivalent to ~5.6degree's kelvin, and the heat capacity of iron is .45Joules/(gram*degree Kelvin). Plugging in the numbers, the total energy needed to raise the temperature of the earth's core 10 degrees F is .45*5.974x10^27*.27*.56= 739282500000000060422094848 .

Now, lets put this into comparison. 1,366 Joules of sunlight energy strike a square meter of earth's surface every second. There are 5.1007*10^14 square meters of surface area on the earth. There are also 31,556,926 seconds in a year. Assuming all of the solar radiation striking earth in a year was absorbed by the earth's core (absurd, but again a massive overestimate), this works out to 21987465540424118772432896 joules of energy being transferred to the core in one year.

Dividing 739282500000000060422094848 by 21987465540424118772432896, we see that it would take 33.62 years for the earth's core's temperature to increase by 10 degrees Farenheight if all of the sunlight that struck the earth had its energy absorbed directly by the core, and no heat was lost from the core, it would take 33.62 years to increase the temperature that much. Now it's possible for the earth's core to increase temperature from some other process over time, but the numbers just don't support that it is remotely possible for solar energy alone to heat the temperature of the core of the earth up that much in a short time period.

I also welcome people to rerun these numbers, as I really haven't done these calculations in almost 10 years. I just wanted a back of the envelope number for comparison, as my scientific curiosity got to me.

Phil

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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by Heather1983 »

philipgar wrote:Just as an aside, I decided to do some quick back of the envelope calculations on this, and what I found is that increasing the temperature of the earth's core by 10 degrees F is just not something that's feasible (assuming I did my math right). It's been a few years since I've done any of these chemistry problems (so if any of our resident experts want to double check the work, please do), but I really didn't want to work on my thesis, and this seemed more interesting.

Here goes, first, I'm assuming the earth's core is 100% iron in composition (it's really 70% or so), and I'm using the heat capacity of iron for all my numbers. This is likely off, but iron has a fairly low heat capacity as it stands, so I'm likely to underestimate the heat capacity if anything.

From a quick googling, I found out that the earth's core is ~27.5% of the earth's mass, and the earth's mass is 5.974x10^24 Kg, or 5.974x10^27 grams.

10 degrees F is equivalent to ~5.6degree's kelvin, and the heat capacity of iron is .45Joules/(gram*degree Kelvin). Plugging in the numbers, the total energy needed to raise the temperature of the earth's core 10 degrees F is .45*5.974x10^27*.27*.56= 739282500000000060422094848 .

Now, lets put this into comparison. 1,366 Joules of sunlight energy strike a square meter of earth's surface every second. There are 5.1007*10^14 square meters of surface area on the earth. There are also 31,556,926 seconds in a year. Assuming all of the solar radiation striking earth in a year was absorbed by the earth's core (absurd, but again a massive overestimate), this works out to 21987465540424118772432896 joules of energy being transferred to the core in one year.

Dividing 739282500000000060422094848 by 21987465540424118772432896, we see that it would take 33.62 years for the earth's core's temperature to increase by 10 degrees Farenheight if all of the sunlight that struck the earth had its energy absorbed directly by the core, and no heat was lost from the core, it would take 33.62 years to increase the temperature that much. Now it's possible for the earth's core to increase temperature from some other process over time, but the numbers just don't support that it is remotely possible for solar energy alone to heat the temperature of the core of the earth up that much in a short time period.

I also welcome people to rerun these numbers, as I really haven't done these calculations in almost 10 years. I just wanted a back of the envelope number for comparison, as my scientific curiosity got to me.

Phil

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall any of your calculations due to the radioactive isotopes,Potassium 40, Uranium 238, 235, and Thorium 232 contained within the mantle. Plus the convection increase of about .7 percent. The due process of each to be exact.
Not to mention that you haven't accounted "ALL" of the contributing factors to this.

Heather1983
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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by Heather1983 »

the work
done by gravity on vibrating molecules throughout
the earth moves the surface heat of the earth
towards the earths core,amplifying it as it moves
to the earth's center.This is backed up by the
fact that, if you had molecules bonded together in
a long string vibrating back and forth, and kept
one end vibrating at a minimum velocity and applied gravity
along the direction of the string
towards the other end,you would find that end
opposite to the one maintained at minimum velocity
would be vibrating at a greater velocity than
the minimum velocity end. This process is increasing rather than decreasing as so in the past. Calculate that with your thesis and formulas and you got a good answer.

A combination of residual heat and radioactive decay. The radioactive decay acting to slow the cooling.
Now, what generates heat in nature other than chemical and nuclear processes? Compression and friction for instance. Now, the mentioned causes seem not sufficient to retain so much heat. We may have to add another unaddressed heat source: friction THe due process as mentioned in the above thread has been increased by 7 percent. The convection of the earth's core liquids are spinning rapidly. Why? Science has no clue yet but the fact is that this is a prominent issue.

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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

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Image

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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by crazybriton »

Pardon me, but I must reply to your topic say. Both of you are actually correct. Phill's calculations are based on natural accurences but Heather's is based on a series of abnormal phenoms that scientists around the world have been watching. If these abnormal events were not taking place, then Phil would be correct but you have to consider that science is discovering new things every day. If you are talking about the earths core, I wonder if you knew that there is evidence to support that the earths outer core is melting. This also means that if indeed the earths core was cooling, then wouldn't the inner core be naturally cooler than the outer? Let us dabble with the earths rotation and axis. We all know that the earths axis is off by some degrees. The gravitation pull has every bit to do with what is going on inside the earths natural magnet. With this being said my young lads, there is a good chance the past physics calculation are out the boot as I put it. What I don't understand is why you two are making a fussy instead of learning off each other. You both seem to be very smart but instead of debating, try putting your dominates together and learn and study.

better late
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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by better late »

Thanks to all of you for such interesting reading - my head is spinnin'.

I'm not sure if the earth's core is melting, or cooling, or what...but, this I know: It's only May and it's already hotter than hell down here in New Orleans. I fear that by August, the people will melt.

Keep cool, people! :?

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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by spodiba »

Closer wrote:
You don't know how it was 500 years ago, so it's easy to state the theory that you mention, but I personally doubt it if there's no scientific proof. I agree that mankind should look after this planet, but it's also arrogant to think that we're actually significant enough to be responsible for hurricanes, earthquakes and what not.[/quote]

No, I don't know, and no, there's no proof, and that's why neither one of us can claim that something did or didn't happen 500 years ago.
No, I don't think it's arrogant, I think it's the responible thing to do.

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Re: I think we all need to stop and think for a moment.

Post by spodiba »

["Closer"][/quote]

You don't know how it was 500 years ago, so it's easy to state the theory that you mention, but I personally doubt it if there's no scientific proof. I agree that mankind should look after this planet, but it's also arrogant to think that we're actually significant enough to be responsible for hurricanes, earthquakes and what not.[/quote]

No, I don't know, and no, there's no proof, and that's why neither one of us can claim that something did or didn't happen 500 years ago.
No, I don't think it's arrogant, I think it's the responible thing to do.

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