I dont get the unfair criticism

[jasonC]

I became a fan of Soul Asylum in the summer of 1995 after hearing Misery come across the speakers of some radio station. I was instantly blown away and had to find the album. I bought Let Your Dim Light Shine on cassette shortly thereafter and have been a fan ever since. I have everything from While You Were Out up to The Silver Lining. The thing I dont get (and didnt even know until 4 or 5 years ago) is why so many of the "old" fans get on their case about "selling out." The music only got better in my opinion, Grave Dancers Union and Let Your Dim Light Shine are probably the best records they have ever made. Yet sometimes when I look at Youtube performances from around 93-95, Ill see comments like how they were selling out and everyhing went to crap after this. I think its total bullshit, their music didnt suffer just because they gained a wider audience. I know that happens with artists from time to time but not in their case. I feel its just the selfish feeling of having them as "your band" and when they got popular it wasnt the same. I love The Horse You Rode In On and Hang Time was pretty damn good too, but up until those records I really dont feel Soul Asylum had hit their stride. GDU and LYDLS are great records I dont care who you are and cant find any reason for the backlash.

[Homesick]

It's funny that some people believe that the less of a band's material you like, the bigger a fan you are, and not the opposite. I don't think that YouTube comments about the band should be taken as indicative of the Soul Asylum fan community in general, though. This board has many longtime fans and we rarely see accusations of selling out on here.

[jasonC]

No not at all, this place seems to be home to true fans who enjoy the bulk of the bands material. Another example-I was joking around at work with a friend one time about him wearing his Dave Pirner shirt(it was actually Kurt Cobain) and a customer heard us mention Dave's name and she was like "Dave Pirner sold out." Then she started talking about how her friends knew him before he started dating Winona and went hollywood and whatever. I was pretty amazed that some random woman who was shopping at a grocery store in Kentucky even knew who Dave Pirner was (without mentioning Soul Asylum) let alone knew his backstory as well. It was just one more comment to make me realize that there are people out there who apparently used to like the band but seem to be really pissed off at them for "selling out."

[Homesick]

I agree with you that allegations like these are far too common in everyday situations, and that goes for pretty much any band that "made it". I've followed some of these debates myself on other band websites. What makes Soul Asylum's position somewhat special, though, is that they released as many as six albums before gaining any considerable recognition. It's not surprising to learn—and this has been brought up many times in interviews—that Grave Dancers Union was pretty much the last record they had the resources left to make, both financially and emotionally.

And that is where the dividing line arises, because some would have them be underground martyrs rather than an enduring band that continues to make music that they enjoy making and that their fans enjoy listening to.

[Closer]

Because it does come off like they were selling out... they used to make punk rock and were underground, then their music became more pop and mainstream and they got their big break, the singer starts dating some big Hollywood actress and dumps his longtime girlfriend for her, then they fire longtime drummer Grant Young for some studio drummer... it's easy to see them as sell outs with all that in mind, and I can understand that some of the longtime fans didn't like their little band being on the cover of teenage magazines and all over the place all of a sudden.

That being said... it was a natural progression how their music changed and there will always be people that don't like that, but they weren't selling out and started writing catchy pop songs on purpose just to sell albums... it just happened, and I think they've always been true to themselves.

[EL DANGEROSO]

i think you could put (we3)(veil of tears)(easy street)on GDSU and they would fit in well i dont think they changed much from HORSE to GDSU. i understand not liking every song they made but if you dont like there last few albums your not a true fan of there music. they need to stop being pretenders.

[Yaz McBoo]

To further fan the flames I am posting below parts of a couple emails sent to me by a guy I used to go to Old 97s & Rhett Miller shows with... A big time SA fan from the 1980s, and I think his viewpoint is typical of a lot of the old school fans. It's been explained to me like you're dating someone, and after a while you realize / find out that person is no longer the person you used to like. Something changed. Some of it is the whole "selling out" thing, and some of it, and perhaps more understandably, is a change in Dave's lyrical style and the fact that the music just wasn't as rough as it was in the days of MTBB and WYWO. It's different than what they do now.

I've kinda seen that with a few other bands I liked when they started out, and maybe don't feel as strongly about them anymore, but they never got huge so it isn't selling out, but something changed. But with Soul Asylum there does seem to be an especially venemous hatred from a lot of the old school fans, and I don't think that is justified.

I can see though why the more casual fans lost interest in the late 1990s when the band stopped doing full-on tours and didn't put out an album for 8 years. Unless you've been on these boards, and not a lot of people are, it's easy to not find out about the band and drift away from them.

-Rob

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>Here's my perspective. In the early days Dave Pirner wrote some amazing
>songs. Some of them were punkish, others were almost metal, quite a few
>were mid-tempo rock, a few were basically folk/twang, etc. Point being,
>they were musically diverse and lyrically they could be knock-out
>fantastic. This dates back to the early & mid 80's, and sometimes the
>production was just downright bad on these discs. But, the songwriting and
>passion was clearly miles ahead of where they ended up by the mid-90's with
>Dim Lights. Two of my early favorites are Made To Be Broken and While You
>Were Out. Then in the later part of the 80's they got off their
>Minneapolis indie label (Twin Tone, same label that feature hometown bands
>like the Mats, Husker Du, Curtiss A, etc.), and they signed with (I think)
>A&M.
>
>There were 2 discs that came out in short succession. First was Hang Time
>around '87 & at first glance it seemed to be a typical major label debut.
>But after I listened to this disc more, I had any awful tough time finding
>any clunkers. Production was better than the older days and their range of
>diversity narrowed a bit, but the songwriting is aces. "Cartoon", my fave
>SA tune, is also one of my favorite songs of all time. Pirner and lead
>guitarist Dan Murphy (who is in Golden Somg & also wrote & sang a few SA
>tunes) were always very good harmonizers together, and their guitars seemed
>to intertwine almost as well as their vocals. And their live shows at this
>time were unbelievable. For an encore they would do at least a 20 minute
>medley (one night in DC it was about 45 minutes or an hour) of mostly 70's
>and 80's covers, ranging from Wild Cherry's "Play That Funky Music" to
>Nazareth's "Hair Of The Dog". It was pretty unbelievable how they bridged
>songs and genres mid-song to switch to the next one. It gives me chills
>now thinking of the live shows I saw during that time. First time I saw
>the Old 97's I thought of Soul Asylum- the life Pirner & Rhett brought to the
>stage was definitely similar. Their 2nd major label disc was, oddly
>enough, recorded totally live in the studio I think on a 4-track, and I'm
>still amazed at how powerful they sounded and of the quality of the
>recording all things considered. That was called And The Horse They Rode
>In On, and it is a loud resounding "we don't suck now just because we
>signed with a major". But, it's much more than that. Great songs,
>including one of Murphy's best, "Gullible's Travels".
>
>Next came Grave Dancer's Union, which I didn't hate, but it definitely was
>commercial ready and man, did it ever take off. They were all over MTV
>(guess this was early 90's) & even had Norm from Cheers in one of their
>videos (there are stories about George Wendt getting stoned with the Mats
>before one of their shows back in the day too). The disc had some very
>good songs, but I think they lost a bit of their edge and the songwriting
>wasn't as strong as it was earlier on. The two hits from this one were
>"Black Gold" and "Runaway Train".
>
>I think Soul Asylum was beginning to hit the bottom of the barrel (for them)
>with the release of Let Your Dim Lights Shine. It was the follow-up to
>their biggest "hit" record, Grave Dancer's Union. Then the one they made
>after Dim Lights was total contrived garbage (don't even recall the name).
>
>Last time I saw SA was after Dim Lights came out. I was so pissed off I
>wanted to kick their asses. It was a short set because it was a festival,
>but they played for over an hour and didn't do a single song off of any
>discs prior to GDU. And that was the end for me.

(Further Elaboration)

> You have to understand- I invested SO much
>hope in these guys as far as fully expecting them to be the next best thing
>& it was extremely painful to watch them fall.
>
>Their later stuff was bad in a lot of ways to my ears, but especially when
>compared to the prior material. Pirner's lyrics lost their creativity, at
>times tried to get too cute and at other times were just seemingly written
>as contrived hits that you hear on the radio. And the diversity of the
>songs totally waffled. There were two speeds, mid-tempo and slightly
>slower (and often cheesier). The songs were unspectacular and sometimes
>flat out weak. You have no idea how much it bothers me to have to be so
>harsh about these guys, but I do feel that strongly about their disastrous
>descent.
>
>Oh, it should also be noted that Dave Pirner started dating Winona Ryder at
>this time of their ascent to fame too. Funny enough, back then Winona was
>not known as the cool rock band frontguy seeker that she became notorious
>for following her stroll with Pirner. I think Dave definitely lost where
>he came from too. His songs reflected it, and although he was not (and
>probably still is not) horrible onstage, the energy and spontanaety all but
>disappeared. I truly believe he sold out, but not until he got a taste of
>fame after Grave Dancer's Union. Sad things is, the fame was so fleeting.
>They were playing large venues for a while there, but after the release of
>their last disc in the late 90's, they couldn't even draw more than a
>sparse crowd that half-filled up a small club called Mulchahy's out on Long
>Island. I know their live shows were simply not near as good as they were
>because I had a bunch of friends from around the country that saw shows
>around the last one I saw & they complained that they didn't play anything
>but new songs, and that it sucked compared to the older gigs.
>
>Dan Murphy seemed to be much less involved in the songwriting during the
>last several years too. And believe me, he was very good and he really
>added another dimension to Soul Asylum. Some of the greatest moments I've
>ever seen during any live shows were Pirner and Murphy sharing a mic face
>to face and harmonizing together on songs like "Cartoon".

[Homesick]

There are two very conflicting sentiments in the message quoted Yaz McBoo (and in similar writings by other ex-fans). The author begins by stating that "I invested SO much hope in these guys as far as fully expecting them to be the next best thing", but when they finally do become famous he accuses them of "selling out". Further, he goes on to describe how they lost so much of their audience after GDU, yet if that's true, it doesn't align at all with his idea that they "sold out" to gain more fans and make more money.

Finally, I feel that people who bring up the entire situation with Winona Ryder and Dave's previous girlfriend to gain support for their "selling out" arguments are way out of line. It is pretty arrogant to believe that we fans know the actual reasons behind Dave's breakup, or that we know best whom any of the band's members should or should not date.

[jasonC]

I just want to say this- I think Let Your Dim Light Shine is way better than all the records made before Hang Time. In every way possible, its a superior record but then again as Ive said before Hang Time is the record where they started to hit their stride, so to speak.

[Closer]

Finally, I feel that people who bring up the entire situation with Winona Ryder and Dave's previous girlfriend to gain support for their "selling out" arguments are way out of line. It is pretty arrogant to believe that we fans know the actual reasons behind Dave's breakup, or that we know best whom any of the band's members should or should not date.

That's completely true, but unfortunately that's not how it works and combined with those other factors it's not hard to understand why people criticized the band back then, even if it was false, but people are ignorant.

And about the other post in this thread... in the end it's all about opinion. I understand how some were disappointed and felt the band had lost their edge, but I personally love the 90's albums. If I had to choose between 80's SA or 90's SA, then I would choose the latter (even though Hang Time might be my favourite)